Melyssa
Elena, where do you want to start today?

Elena
All right, well, so this year, wow, this has been a weird year for everybody, of course, but I feel like what, you know, having known you and talking to a lot of people, it’s interesting when you get to a certain point as an entrepreneur where you are doing really well and feel pretty successful, but it’s almost like that’s a harder place to be than in the beginning when you have like, all of this, like, you know, I don’t know what you would call it, like wide eyed motivation, and you just, you know, you’re trying all these new techniques, and then when something works, it’s really exciting and like, there’s just it’s almost like it’s, uh, you know, blind, you’re going in blind, and that’s actually, you know, ignorance is bliss. And so now, where I am, is I feel like I am sort of stuck at the success point that I’m at and really good at launching. I’m still sort of trying to like narrow in my focus and I thought I really believe that I have done that finally figured out like what I want to focus my you know, at on growing my team, which feels really good, I’m sort of just trying to really think of what the next steps are as far as like evergreen stuff and where I should continue to try and grow. That makes sense.

Melyssa
Yeah, I love the way that you spoke about that, too, that being successful starting to grow your business in a significant way is actually more confronting than those beginning stages. It feels like it would be the opposite. But yeah, I agree. Do you have a sense of why it feels that way?

Unknown Speaker
My gut is really always points to the fact that there is like, underlying, lack mindset where you think, Okay, well, I got here, but how can I ever sustain this? And that’s, you know, just completely a mindset thing that I’m aware of, and I know that I have to do work on. But I think that also, you know, when you get to the point where I am, which is, you know, making 250 plus thousand a year that you’re like, Well, for me, I’m really like doing a gut check. And I’m like, what matters like I want to make sure that what I’m doing has like purpose and is going to be fulfilling long term more for myself not for my future clients, they’re always proud to say that my clients are really happy with what I provide for them. So I’m more just like, you know, really trying to decide, like, Where do I want to focus my efforts, whether it be monetary or, you know, where do I want to grow my team? What makes the most sense for me? I didn’t think about this a lot before we started talking, by the way, so I just started talking on the fly. That’s okay. But yeah, so that’s and I feel like the reason I’m aware of that is having been in your mastermind, I know that a lot of us are feeling that way. Even when we met in person, you know, all of us were doing pretty well, some way more than others, but, and a lot of us are like, Okay, well, we’re here and we got here and we know how to stay here. But what’s next? What’s more important right now, where should I be focusing my efforts? If like, that’s what I really just want to get a little more direction a little more, you know, motivation, I guess to decide what’s right thing right now.

Melyssa
Right. What’s next? Okay, and what do you mean by that? Like, what’s next in your business, what’s next in revenue your life?

Elena
In my business? I think. Not life. Life feels pretty, pretty good, you know, personally anyways, but no more what’s next in my business? So like, I think what I did is what a lot of people do I remember during this when I first became a photographer that’s like totally dialed in, that happens on inside. And now that I have the education platform, I did, like all the things, I taught the classes, I had the ebook, I did a membership site for a while, which I’m sort of deconstructing right now. Just everything right? And I’m like, Oh, this works. And this works too, and looks like it. And I guess that’s what I’m, I’m saying this from a place that’s humble. But I’m figuring like, I can make any of it work. What do I want to make work? What do I want to be known for what I want to be doing? Do I want to have evergreen courses? Do I want to launch new courses every time do I want to do a podcast, you know, whatever. It’s just like so many things. So many options. I’m trying to decide where I want to put energy.

Melyssa
What an exciting place to be you have choices you have possibilities that you’re seeing I love that.

Elena
Yeah, yeah.

Melyssa
Do you have a sense of things that you’re choosing between or is it a choice that you need to make between different things?

Elena
I think what I’m trying to decide, is, I just had a big launch. And I found that I actually really liked that process. It’s fun for me, it’s like exciting. I would like to make that course evergreen and have, I used to have four courses. I’m really thinking that I’m gonna narrow it down to these two that are, I know, they’re really good. They’re very actionable people really get a lot out of them. And so now I’m trying to decide, do I want to run them live, you know, like, quote, unquote, live where I’m in there with them for a four week process? Or do I want to make it completely evergreen? And I’m just, I guess I have like, self doubt about that. Like, would I be able to make revenue monthly on them evergreen enough? Like, I don’t do big launches. Like I’m just sort of trying to figure that part out that piece, I guess.

Melyssa
Mm hmm. So you like live launching but you’re enticed by putting these programs on evergreen? What about making evergreen sounds appealing to you?

Elena
Consistent income sounds really appealing. And I’ll admit, I’m like an adrenaline junky a little bit like you get. The launches are fun. It’s really fun to see like huge, massive amounts of sales every single day for a couple of weeks, you know. And I feel like my audience sort of enjoys it, too. They get kind of excited about it ends up being a just a fun energy for my community. But I do also, you know, I’m gearing up for another year of homeschool, or they just announced in our area that the kids will be learning from home again. And so kind of like I probably should spend the next six weeks working on systems to make this all really run like a well oiled machine.

Melyssa
Hmm. Right. That makes sense. So it sounds like a combination of launching and evergreen would work the best for you.

Elena
Yes.

Melyssa
So you talked about how there’s some resistance to putting out an evergreen funnel. Do you have any right now any evergreen stuff?

Elena
I do. I have to one that’s like a little posing guide. It’s not class, but one class that’s on an evergreen funnel. And it does pretty well. It does pretty well. So I would like to do better, but it does, it does pretty well. And I think I probably need to have someone come in and like, redo my copy and that kind of stuff. And it’s, it’s been two years. So.

Melyssa
So what’s the resistance behind going harder with evergreen and making that a bigger part of what you do?

Elena
Probably, I’m afraid it won’t work. I guess. I’m afraid it won’t make as much money if I don’t do the big push the launch.

Melyssa
What if you do it? What if you put out an evergreen funnel and it doesn’t work?

Elena
I don’t know. It’s a good question. I’ll feel like like a failiure. I’m just kidding. I don’t know. I actually think if it doesn’t work, what it would make me think is that it’s not the class it’s the way that the funnel is working. So I need to reevaluate that because I do know that these classes are really good. I have like so I mean, the other reviews are like 99% positive I’m not exaggerating. So I know that it’s more of like, the whole other process. And I do have an ads manager now. We’re still getting our groove. But I think what I would have to do is reevaluate the, like, the opt ins, and the email sequences and all of that.

Melyssa
So kind of going back to what you said at the very beginning of now, there’s more to lose, essentially, is that the fear that’s coming up for you, when you think about creating an evergreen funnel, and it not working?

Elena
Probably. Yeah, I think so. I think so. And I think that, like, the time that we’re living in, if anyone has any tendency to, like, fall into a lack mindset, it just like triggers it big time. Right? It’s like, I’m like hoarding the money in my bank account. Like, I’m like, ah what if it goes away? You know, like, the economy is so unstable, which I mean, it isn’t for me, it hasn’t been that so it’s all just in my mind, you know, it’s all like fear based. So I got a really just check myself with that, I think.

Melyssa
Right. Can I share something that I thought was interesting? About what you just said?

Elena
Please

Melyssa
The way that you phrased it was like the economy that we’re in right now, we all have a tendency to, if something feels unsteady to kind of go into scarcity, versus saying, because of the economy we live in right now, I have a tendency to go into scarcity when things that feel unsteady. It’s almost like a universal way of putting it that takes the pressure. The feeling off of it being your belief. It’s like a Yeah, everyone must believe this. So it’s true. We are being your belief, and then we can actually work on it.

Elena
Yeah, I like that. Good.

Melyssa
Yeah. Okay, so we want to create some evergreen funnels, mildly afraid of them failing and the whole thing crumbling. Is it possible that everything that you’ve created will actually maintain and continue and evergreen funnels, whether they work or not will just be like a bonus? An add on?

Elena
What do you mean? I guess I’m gonna understand Question like so these are evergreen funnels will be like extra.

Melyssa
Yeah, exactly. So it’s like, if you try them, because there’s this kind of fear of like, what if I create one and then it fails. But what if you do create one and it fails, you’re still coming out with the same revenue that you would have created, if you hadn’t created an evergreen funnel. So it’s really you only have up to go, you’re not putting all of your eggs into the Evergreen basket because you still have the live launches, and you still have other ways that you sell. So it’s kind of like, you can experiment. And if it works, then great. And if it doesn’t work, then you can just keep iterating and you really only have up to go.

Elena
I like that and like looking at it that way.

Melyssa
How does that feel to the part of you that like, wants to live in scarcity or fear?

Elena
It feels good, it feels more like a like I’m being like, strategic, you know, a little bit more which makes me feel better makes me feel a little safer. Good.

Melyssa
Okay, what else?

Elena
I guess, you know, I think that in doing that, I have to, I know what I need to do to make the Evergreen funnels better. I already said it like, I need to hire a copywriter. It’s been a good year for me in growth in that way where I’ve really started to just let go and grow my team. And Surprise, surprise, you know, revenues actually up and things look good. It’s like, Oh, I’m gonna go support this team, even though I was afraid I wouldn’t do. So

Melyssa
I remember talking about the beginning of the year.

Elena
Yeah, yeah, it’s like, so it’s so interesting. How much of that, you know, it’s in your mind, for sure. I want to make them like I know what I need to do to make them better to make funnels better to make evergreen things work a little bit better. I need to just do it.

Melyssa
Right, which could be said for like any business strategy. Most people know what they need to do. They just aren’t doing it. So why are you doing it?

Elena
It’s back to them. Same thing, it’s back to scarcity. I think I’m just like, can I support another contract worker? You know, do I want to spend the whatever X amount of money having them write my email funnels? Because they’re lengthy, you know? And I will tell myself things like, but I know my audience, and I know how they want to hear from me. And you know, I’ll say things like that to myself to rationalize it. So, yeah. How do you get out of that?

Melyssa
Well, I have a question for you. So have you thought about or gotten quotes from a copywriter? Maybe you have a sense of how much it might cost to have them write those emails?

Elena
No, I haven’t done that yet. Okay, that’s, that’s one thing I’ve never outsourced.

Melyssa
Okay, do you know how many emails it would take for them to create that funnel?

Elena
It’s like four or five per funnel. I think that they could probably have them write the copy for my sales pages as well, which would probably be helpful.

Melyssa
So is that to two funnels to sales? Yeah. Yeah, we’re looking at like Like 10 emails to sales pages. Okay, yeah. And you’ve never worked with a copywriter before. Oh, wow, your life’s about to be changed.

Elena
I know. So I can give you a general quote of an average of people that I’ve worked with. So 10 emails, usually for a good copywriter, you probably would want to pay between at least 100 to $200 per email. So we’ll just say $150 per email, which is what $1500 dollars for those two sequences. And then for sales pages, usually somewhere in my experience between $1500 to $3,000 per sales page. So let’s just say that they’re $2000 each. So that’s $4000. So $4500, roughly, to hire a copywriter to create two sales funnels and two sales pages for you. But what do you charge for these two different programs, the newer one was $297 and the older one was $147. But I’m gonna raise the price to $297. So $297 because I was there was another thing. I was like, Oh, my audience won’t spend too many seven turns out they will. So there was that I need to stop talking to myself in this way. But so, yeah, $297 instead I’m going to charge for them.

Melyssa
Okay, cool. So you’ve got two funnels, so I’m gonna do the math $4500 or sorry, $5500 my mistake divided by $297 you would need to make about 19 sales to recoup the cost of the copywriter. How quickly do you think 19 sales would happen? If you set up these funnels?

Elena
Probably in like a week, right?

Melyssa
And that’s like the week, then you have next week and the next week and the next year. And so if you think about how much money you are leaving on the table by not hiring a copywriter. We’re probably talking in like the 10s, if not hundreds of thousands.

Elena
Yeah. Right. And that is like a resistance point for me. Because at the time that it takes to write emails, as you know, I’m like ugh. This one that I just launched, and I did write a bunch of great emails for the launch. But when it’s a live launching, that’s a little different. And I was like, Oh my god, do I want to set up this funnel to take me forever? Because of all of the things that you have to do to set it up and then this actually just pretty much solves that problem. Paying somebody to do it.

Melyssa
Right, which is such a good point too, because then you can think about, well, how long have I been procrastinating on not writing those emails and sales pages because I just have other things to do. And it’s not my forte. I mean, if it takes it has taken months, that’s also 10s of thousands of dollars. So it’s kind of like, sometimes the fear part of us is like, well, I don’t want to spend the money. That’s a lot of money it’s going to be thousands of it is it’s going to be over $5,000 to hire a copywriter. So the fear part of our brain is like, well, that’s a lot of money. I’ll just do it myself. But then when we actually look for some evidence, it can start to suit that part where it’s like, well, actually, it’d be $5,000 is pretty cheap compared to what I’m actually going to be getting in return.

Elena
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, that solves that I need to get into get some recommendations for that. My question for you on evergreen stuff is I know you have a couple of courses right that you run evergreen. You live launch them a couple times a year. Right. And then do you relaunch old courses every year?

Melyssa
Yeah, for the most part. Yeah.

Elena
I’m just gonna give it a big boost and then get back into evergreen.

Melyssa
Right. Yeah. And you can really decide what that schedule looks like for you. Yeah, thinking about the copywriter thing. I mean, we can logic our way through the evidence of why it’s a good investment. Is there any part of you still It’s like,I don’t really want to do it or I don’t have to spend the money or is it gonna work or anything that’s still kind of lingering there?

Elena
Not really actually like, I’m feeling really good about that. Because the one that I just live launched, one of the bonuses was that it had this four week, you know, group coaching, which was basically just available. I was available to them for four weeks. And so I’ll take that out that bonus out, of course, but I think that now I was kind of like, okay, what’s the next step right now? Do I live launch my other course? Do I make this evergreen? And I think just in this conversation, which is mostly just me talking to myself and you being a really excellent listener, which is one of your superpowers, but I’m realizing what I need to do is set up the Evergreen funnel for this or else it’s just sitting there not making any money. I’m losing money where I could be making money on it and doing that is going to be getting help to get it done. Which as if I was telling my friend this, I said if I learned nothing else this year from this mastermind, which I’ve learned so much is that I’ve learned to not do everything myself and like to not white knuckle and to set this these systems up this team. So that’s pretty cool.

Melyssa
Right? And that’s when you really start moving into being a CEO versus like a freelancer is when you allow yourself is really as an allowing a permission to not have to do it all yourself to be supported, to invest in your company.

Elena
Yes.

Melyssa
Okay, so hiring copywriter

Elena
Yeah, I think hiring a copywriter is the that’s really the only thing that isn’t set up and done right now. I mean, the course is on, you know, it’s already in the system. I just need to create a new link for it. That’s evergreen, easy thing to do. It’s just writing those emails. They don’t have them written yet for that. But of course, I guess the next thing too would be I really I want to make sure that I have you know, relevant opt ins that will get people into those funnels.

Melyssa
Right, that’s out there to some Do you have a sense of what those opt ins would be or somebody on your team who could help with creating those?

Elena
I do I actually already have opt ins that would work for it, you know, that are relevant to this the content that I taught during the course so many of them multiple, but I could just make it be the beginning of those sequences.

Melyssa
Fabulous. Easy.

Elena
Yeah, I know

Melyssa
When can you have all of this ready to go. When can you start reaching out to copywriters?

Elena
I think I’m gonna start reaching out to operators now, right away. I mean, I think my goal would be to have this set up and running before the kids start school before, you know, end of August, early September, which, as you know, like when the course is already written, that’s the hard part. That’s done so.

Melyssa
Right. Yes. And I absolutely think that that deadline the next four to six weeks you absolutely can meet that for both of those funnels. Anything else that feels like it’s sort of blocking you or stopping you from where you want to go?

Elena
No, I don’t think so. I feel like I have like a plan now somehow, like I said, and just talking to you, I’m like, okay, this is what I need to do. And I’m gonna feel so much less worried about you know so much less of this scarcity stuff is gonna come up, if I do the work to make these things run on their own and know you have that confidence and knowing that they’re gonna revenate, generate revenue in the background, so.

Melyssa
Mm hmm. Revenate. I like that word.

Elena
I made that up.

Melyssa
Awesome. Well, I’m glad you’re feeling good about things is amazing how quickly things can shift with just a little perspective. So I’m glad to hear that.

Elena
That’s quite important to have peers. When we get in our own head, right, it’s hard to sometimes make sense of what’s going on in there so stuck about it.

Melyssa
Right, right. Okay, cool. Well, glad to hear it. Good job.

Elena
Thank you. I’m gonna get in that group right now and get some copywriter recommendations.

Melyssa
Good I can’t wait to hear how it goes and I’m excited to hear how the funnel goes once you’ve got it all set up and hopefully it’s an easy process now that you’re gonna be working with somebody.

Elena
Yeah, I’m excited. That’s cool.

Melyssa
You’re welcome.